Silvio

Administrator

  • "Silvio" started this thread
  • Switzerland

Posts: 656

Location: Grisons

Occupation: Student

  • Send private message

1

Monday, June 21st 2010, 6:26pm

Birth Control

And another interesting topic to talk about:

In an overpopulated world, should people be free to have as many children as they want?

Should there be regulations in any way? Right now we have underdeveloped countries which they have a lot of childrens and in developed ones where you they 1-2 or children(s) in the average.

Have a look on this graph on wikipedia.


What is there more to say?

Here you can have a look at the changes in your country from 1950-2050 with a tool from UNO: World Population Prospects.
Everyone chases after happiness, not noticing that happiness is right at their heels. - Bertolt Brecht (1898-1956)

arianne_nl

Moderator

    Netherlands

Posts: 714

Location: The Netherlands

Occupation: Student/Mailwoman

  • Send private message

2

Monday, June 21st 2010, 6:57pm

I guess you should give people the possibility to take measures. (Though our government is taking them away right now). I still think people should be able to make their own choices about it. But then it's still better to be responsible about it.
Just be yourself, there are enough 'others'!

Flickr

And most probably got my BA degree!! yaaaay!

Nike

Moderator

    Netherlands

Posts: 611

Location: the Netherlands

Occupation: Student

  • Send private message

3

Monday, June 21st 2010, 7:38pm

It's impossible to restrict people of having a certain number of children (things like the Chinese one child policy are in certain ways not very humain, because you let them no choice), but it would be good if people paid attention to the number of children they have an for what reason they want children.

For example in some villages in the Netherlands some families have 10-15 children (raising the average a bit :P), because for each child they got extra money from the government, and not all of that money goed to the care for the child, but to the parents. If you want more children for reasons like that, it could be good to have some sort of regulation for that.
As far as I know, now they reduced the money you can get from the government after you have more than 3 children.
"A room without books is like a body without a soul" - Cicero

arianne_nl

Moderator

    Netherlands

Posts: 714

Location: The Netherlands

Occupation: Student/Mailwoman

  • Send private message

4

Tuesday, June 22nd 2010, 10:42am

@Nike.. yeah they are cutting down on the fees. But somehow that's good too. If you just get children for the money it's just stupid. Children grow up and they will cost you more than they'll bring in eventually.
Just be yourself, there are enough 'others'!

Flickr

And most probably got my BA degree!! yaaaay!

Nike

Moderator

    Netherlands

Posts: 611

Location: the Netherlands

Occupation: Student

  • Send private message

5

Wednesday, June 23rd 2010, 11:26pm

Totally agreed on the statement above. So hopefully more people nowadays think that way and get their money in normal ways in stead of 'investing' in children.

But as the government wants the anticonception pill to be paid for from now on and ot via the health insurance... they're actually countering the effect, because in some cases it could lead to higher birth rates. It's also typical that of course women are against this new rule, while men, that actually have nothing to say about this topic, are totally pro. Which is just plain typical. In this case they should just leave it to the women :P
"A room without books is like a body without a soul" - Cicero

Advertisement

arianne_nl

Moderator

    Netherlands

Posts: 714

Location: The Netherlands

Occupation: Student/Mailwoman

  • Send private message

6

Thursday, June 24th 2010, 7:54am

yeah I think so too.. and then they say: yeah.. but using a condom feels like we're cutting down on something which is our own. Ehhmm.. guys? What do women have to do?

@Nike: well.. my pill wasn't even in the basic insurance anyway.. it'll only cost me more the next year or so :O
Just be yourself, there are enough 'others'!

Flickr

And most probably got my BA degree!! yaaaay!

Silvio

Administrator

  • "Silvio" started this thread
  • Switzerland

Posts: 656

Location: Grisons

Occupation: Student

  • Send private message

7

Thursday, June 24th 2010, 6:37pm

Children grow up and they will cost you more than they'll bring in eventually.

Oh gosh, what a statement. Talking about children as an item... I'm wondering when I amortize myself for my parents... hm ;) Let's calculate... haha (I'm just kidding, by the way)

Sounds pretty interesting what actually happens in Netherland... no idea how it is like in Switzerland, though. So yes, they should leave it to women, I'd say too. I wouldn't have an opinion if there's such a discussion in Switzerland too - well, or just after I've talked with some women. :)
Everyone chases after happiness, not noticing that happiness is right at their heels. - Bertolt Brecht (1898-1956)

arianne_nl

Moderator

    Netherlands

Posts: 714

Location: The Netherlands

Occupation: Student/Mailwoman

  • Send private message

8

Friday, June 25th 2010, 9:04am

Haha... yeah sorry for the direct statement Silvio. But that's just how some people here think about children, as Nike already pointed out rightly. If you only 'have' children for the money they bring in temporarily.. I wonder if that's good for the children. You should love them, not use them as a kind of fund for you to stay home, drink beer and watch TV all day long.
Just be yourself, there are enough 'others'!

Flickr

And most probably got my BA degree!! yaaaay!

Nike

Moderator

    Netherlands

Posts: 611

Location: the Netherlands

Occupation: Student

  • Send private message

9

Friday, June 25th 2010, 9:25am

That's indeed the point. As far as I've heard from families with a bizarre amount of children, after a certain number of children the parents don't give the direct care anymore to their children, but leave the oldest children to it (who are by the time around 15-20 or even around their 30th year), so you get a bit of a disrupted parent-child relationship.

The clue of this lesson: Don't take more children than you actually can care for and never start having children when it's for the (temporarily) extra money you get. :P
"A room without books is like a body without a soul" - Cicero

arianne_nl

Moderator

    Netherlands

Posts: 714

Location: The Netherlands

Occupation: Student/Mailwoman

  • Send private message

10

Friday, June 25th 2010, 2:32pm

*applauds* :thumbsup:
Just be yourself, there are enough 'others'!

Flickr

And most probably got my BA degree!! yaaaay!

Advertisement

Silvio

Administrator

  • "Silvio" started this thread
  • Switzerland

Posts: 656

Location: Grisons

Occupation: Student

  • Send private message

11

Sunday, July 18th 2010, 4:49pm

I've just talked to a Chinese girl and that was quite interesting... so for the second child they have to pay 1000 Yuan (that's around 115 Euro).

Due to a map, which I've found in the internet, you can see that the average income is around 9400 Yuan per year for a city inhabitant and around 2900 Yuan per year for a farmer. (Source: handelsblatt.com - it's in German, though)

I can't even imagine how something like this can work out... so after a while I also found out that in her opinion most young people are afraid of getting children because they can't afford it... so what else is there to say?
Everyone chases after happiness, not noticing that happiness is right at their heels. - Bertolt Brecht (1898-1956)

12

Tuesday, July 20th 2010, 7:43am

i need to state sth clearly abt the chinese social condition

with the rapid development of the econony in china ,the standard of living has been improved.china is the one of those who are able to buy the most of the luxuries.but there are still someone who are experiencing hunger and have no place to live in. so what i wanna say is that the gap between the poor and rich has increased rapidly in china, espeaially between the cities and villages.

arianne_nl

Moderator

    Netherlands

Posts: 714

Location: The Netherlands

Occupation: Student/Mailwoman

  • Send private message

13

Tuesday, July 20th 2010, 7:47am

and gaps between the rich and the poor will always be present everywhere. Just more clear in some countries than in others.
Just be yourself, there are enough 'others'!

Flickr

And most probably got my BA degree!! yaaaay!

14

Tuesday, July 20th 2010, 8:06am

i wanna clear it that someone love children and wanna have one.but in view of some sakes,they cant get all they want.

first, when we chinese graduate from colleges or unniversity, we will face the competition and the increasing employment pressure.when women take an interview , interviewer will prefer the single ones without children, who are even requested to promise no marriage or no pregnanc in the several years before employed. to some extent, they prefer men than women for less troublesome. it's decided by china's national situation. in some way, it's kind of discrimination against women.

second, if babies were born , their parents need to spend much money on children from the baby care to the education. beside, what's worse, mum and papa wanna their babies will be educated well in the modern and advanced school ,where will cost much . though the Law stipulates that China implement nine-year compulsory education, all children above six, whatever sex, nationality and race they are of, should go to school to receive a nine-year compulsory education, the parents believe that private education encourages elitism, which made it worse the public school dunt have the advanced modern facilities with powerful teacher group.without the support of the government in the education, ppl couldnt afford the expenses of their children's education.

third, maybe money is not the big deal. did u hear the child slavery? it's a new name, used to describe the general life of their parents, who have work hard for their children ,made money for their children and lose their own life reflected the value of the states.they believe that women will not women again after bearing babies,who will be responsible for the children's basic necessities of life , education and healthy.then they will lose the value of self.in my opinion, these symptoms expose two terrible problems:

on one hand, for the only one child policy, parts of someone who were born after 1980s ,the only one child in the family, have some emotional defects.those ppl are lack of children's partnership and brotherhood since born, which is the important part of the indispensible emotion. proposing the slave of child theory is not for which couldnt afford the children, but for the lack of affection and emotional defects.

on the other hand, infertility culture invade and attack the birth culture. Earlier generations are universal marriage in general fertility.amost no one dunt wanna give birth. but nw the proportion of ppl dunt wanna increase fertility,which indicates the infertility's invasion of fertility culture. it's hard to make an transition from the birth cluture to non-reproducitivity. however once one accepts the non-birth culture, re-birth culture, will be more difficult.

anyway, in my view,birth, feeding children is a highly synergistic state, which will bring great happiness. in the face of a child , u cant distinguish the request and dedication. the well-being of nuturing the future generation, as the pride of parents, children and grandchildren around the kneel of satisfaction, the joy of a sense of family happiness, which can be measured using the cost?

so guys do u have some different ideas? if do, plz tell me .looking forward to ur reply. :)

Silvio

Administrator

  • "Silvio" started this thread
  • Switzerland

Posts: 656

Location: Grisons

Occupation: Student

  • Send private message

15

Tuesday, July 20th 2010, 4:22pm

Thanks for your effort wit to write your thoughts down.

For me it was hard to imagine what it means what you’re talking about. Here women are still fighting for equal rights but on a total different level. They have now every opportunity and it even looks like in Switzerland that soon 5 out of 7 in the federal council will be women. In a way that’s amazing and still are a lot of women not satisfied. Now some people (especially men) think it’s going other way round that soon men are being discriminated. Well, so far I can’t admit to this, but that was just thought as a comparison to the situation in China.

“They prefer men than women because then they’ll have less trouble.” I’ve heard this before also here and sometimes it does happen. The idea that a company order a woman not to marry and get pregnant is just disgusting, isn’t it? At least in my opinion and sure, that’s nothing else than discrimination against women.

In your second point you’re talking about public and private schools, so you’re telling us that the public school isn’t able to bring pupils to an acceptable level of education? This indeed would be a huge problem then because only the rich children can go to a good school – this would encourage a two-class society. You’re talking about a nine-year compulsory education, so right now you don’t have this in China?

Child slavery? Well, I’ve heard it a few times but other way round… that the children are suppressed. Well, parents who have to work that hard in order to support their children is wrong too. I don’t agree with the statement that women will not be women after a bearing? That just sounds totally silly. Life will be totally different if you have a child but here it might be more a problem that the parents have a strange view. Why should the child get everyone what it want? And that’s what I see if you're one child only in a family – here in my village there are two of them and in my childhood I was always envy of them because they got everything what they wished: computer, mountain bikes, television and much more. Did it help to grow up better? I’d say no. You can give a good life to a child without provide everything. This would be my logic – but sure, the situation in China is not that easy and therefore child slavery might be a serious problem and can only be fought by the government with minimum wages and better condition for workers.


[...] the only one child in the family, those ppl are lack of children's partnership and brotherhood since born

I agree with you, well, not in general but sometimes that can happen. If they're integrated in playgroups and can interact with many other children on a regular basis then this usually shouldn't happen, though. Do you have anything like this in China? A place where young children can meet each other?

You have also to remember that ‘one child policy’ has a past and a reason. If it wasn’t for this there would be an even bigger problem now, I assume.

I totally agree with your last sentences about family. For me it’s the same, money doesn’t matter compared with having a family. I’d love to have children too in my future… this would also a lot depend on my wife, though. ;)

So this would be my point of view to your post.
Everyone chases after happiness, not noticing that happiness is right at their heels. - Bertolt Brecht (1898-1956)

Advertisement

arianne_nl

Moderator

    Netherlands

Posts: 714

Location: The Netherlands

Occupation: Student/Mailwoman

  • Send private message

16

Wednesday, July 21st 2010, 7:59am

[...] the only one child in the family, those ppl are lack of children's partnership and brotherhood since born
From my experience I can say that that isn't true! :D I'm an only child and I can't say that I turned out badly... Talking about prejudices about only children.. heard them all! :D And as Silvio said.. if there are enough opportunities to meet other children and play it's ok. Besides that it depends on how the parents raise their children (my dad used to steal my toys and wouldn't give them back.. so then I had to fight with him over toys instead of with any other children). And of course my cousins were a good replacement too. I Guess it totally depends on how you cope with it as a parent (which is most important, because children feel that) and how you cope with it as being a child. Many of my friends don't have any brothers or sisters either.. Loads of opportunities in life to make friends.. that has nothing to do with if you are an only child or not... but how you live your life and if you go and look for other people. Just my point of view and personal experience.
Just be yourself, there are enough 'others'!

Flickr

And most probably got my BA degree!! yaaaay!

17

Wednesday, July 21st 2010, 1:36pm

Quoted


" if there are enough opportunities to meet other children and play it's ok. Besides that it depends on how the parents raise their children"

The term “China one” refers to the child who was born after the 1980s, when China launched the one-child policy. Not only are they the family’s only child, but they are also the family’s center of attention. Their parents and grandparents would spare no efforts in taking care of them, and would give them anything and everything, as if they were the “emperor” of the family. :D

As a result, most children of the “China one” generation lack independence as they have become so reliant on their families for support. Some parents even hired a maid for their children when they go to college. Other unfavorable characteristics include: bad communication skills, rudeness, ungratefulness and self-centeredness.

as far as i'm concerned, there are anything to blame in the parents and the only child themselves. to solve these consequences, we need to start from both sides. :rolleyes:

as silvio and arianne said, parents should be responsible for teaching and taking care of child. first of all, parents shouldnt dote on their only child, otherwise, only children are sometimes spoilt.what's more important, my advice is that parents should give a more rational treatment to some children, making him not the center of the attention. in addtion, such "independence" shouldnt be allowed to continue through measures taken to prevent their child from the above character flaws. by encouraging their child to take part in the holiday activeties, they can train the children's social skill and play advantages of children.besides,it's essential to creat conditions in which children could get more contacts with guysand let him grow up in the collective. i believe both the child's physical and mental development will be healthy, so they are no longer called " the beat generation".

character varies with living conditions, it's impossibe to be one-sided capture the child's personality. so in my view, as only child, more importance should be attached to their psychological integrity and mental perfection to make their body and spirit as adults. besides, as growing up, the only ones need to correct and improve themselves after defects of characters found.

tha's my immature opinion. i'm looking forward to ur reply. ;)

arianne_nl

Moderator

    Netherlands

Posts: 714

Location: The Netherlands

Occupation: Student/Mailwoman

  • Send private message

18

Thursday, July 22nd 2010, 12:36pm

well... to add to what you just said wit... I don't think people (only child or not.. ) should even try to be perfect. It only leads to frustration when you can't be as perfect as you would like to be. Striving to be good at things and do things as well as possible is ok.. but pure perfection is rather impossible. (as my psychotherapist taught me.. ) :P
Just be yourself, there are enough 'others'!

Flickr

And most probably got my BA degree!! yaaaay!

19

Friday, July 23rd 2010, 5:05am

:D yeah, i totally agree with u arianne , no one is perfect. even in greek myth, Achilles' heel can speaks for itself.
what we need to do is accept ourself both merits and dismerits. so why not enjoy life ? ;)

Similar threads